Managing multi-language projects in the Federation platform interface

Open Space Makers International Circle
1

I am slowly getting to the fact that though I would love to have projects lead in multiple languages, in reality it is very unlikely that this will happen in the foreseeable future.
This means that we should prepare for a « working language » per project, and possibly have several different instances of a given project, depending on the language in which it is lead.
A simple way to start may be to highlight on the project list page the working language of each project, for example with a small flag in a corner, and then to allow sorting projects by working language.

@nicolas.warin I am looking for the specs of the multilanguage features of the upcoming 1.8 version of the platform, can you share some details? And would that be compatible?

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2

I agree that this is the most pragmatic way to proceed, unfortunately. The flag is a cool perk. :ok_hand:

3

Hello,

With WebU, we have compiled the functionalities described within the specifications, but (obviously), at the moment, they are in French. So I will need a bit of time to translate them.

I also agree regarding the way to proceed (and still working to have better multilingual tools), the flag is a good idea.

4

Hi,

You will find attached a summary of the functionalities developed within the framework of version 1.8 of the platform, development still underway and being finalized.

The elements below necessarily represent compromises between the current state of the art on translation tools (and on the possibilities offered by the different tools constituting the platform), the efforts and the technical complexity necessary for their implementation, and finally the ease of use for all users.

These technical aspects must be complemented by good governance and clear rules on uses, knowing that in the first place, there will be translations to do by FOSM side on some tools (more details to come soon).

Do not hesitate to send us your comments / wishes, even if it will be complicated to integrate major modifications now, the development does not stop at release 1.8, we then continue on the UX part (v1.9) also very important.

Thanks :wink:

–Multilingual–

Translation on the portal

The site is designed to support several languages. The translation work will be separated into two approaches depending on the nature of the content to be translated.

Each content can be translated and it will be necessary to define for each attribute whether it is multi-language or not.

There are two types of content:

Static content which is versioned in the same way as the rest of the source code.
Dynamic content that is stored in the database: news, events, projects, cms page, etc.

Static content will be translated via an instance of the Weblate tool which will be made available while dynamic content will be directly translated on the portal.

Dynamic content will be directly editable in the portal.

Examples of dynamic content:

  • pages
  • news
  • thematic projects / groups
  • fablabs
  • events

The languages ​​planned for the 1st iteration will be the following: French, English, German, Spanish, Italian.

The behavior for displaying and changing the language on the portal will be as follows:

  • Display the content in a default language if content is not translated into the version displayed (English then French) (manage canonical)
  • Display an indication (flag?) of the other languages ​​available if the translation does not exist in the version displayed

User preferences

Each member can define his preferred language in the edition of his account on the portal.
By default, the language is set according to the language in which the account was created.

Translation of static content

The tool used is Weblate, a web interface will be accessible to FOSM translators to complete the translations in shared ways.

Language management in different tools

Keycloak

  • translations of specific items in Weblate
  • the language of the user will be synchronized from the language of the portal (creation / change)

Nextcloud

The contents will not be translatable directly within the tool.

  • interface translations only (existing)
  • translation of specific items (WebU)
  • the names of the files will not be translatable (need to use a multilingual acronym or a pivot language later ?!)
  • the language of the user will be synchronized from the language of the portal (creation / change)

OpenProject

The contents will not be translatable directly within the tool.

  • interface translations only (existing)
  • translation of specific items (webu)
  • the names of the projects will not be translatable (need to use a multilingual acronym or a pivot language later ?!)
  • the language of the user will be synchronized from the language of the portal (creation / change)

Gitlab

The contents will not be translatable directly within the tool.

  • interface translations only (existing)
  • translation of the specific (WebU)
  • the names of the projects will not be translatable (need to use a multilingual acronym or a pivot language later ?!)
  • the language of the user will be synchronized from the language of the portal (creation / change)

RocketChat

The contents will not be translatable directly within the tool.

  • interface translations only (existing)
  • translation of the specific (WebU)
  • the names of the channels will not be translatable (need to use a multilingual acronym or a pivot language later ?!)
  • the language of the user will be synchronized from the language of the portal (creation / change)

MediaWiki

The content will be available in several languages ​​in different wikis, because the different languages ​​and pages will not necessarily evolve in the same way.

For the same reasons, files will not be shared between wikis.

Tools will be tested to facilitate translation between languages ​​and wikis.

  • interface translations (existing)
  • translation of the specific (WebU)
  • the language of the user will be synchronized from the language of the portal (creation / change)

Discourse

The content can be translated into several languages ​​directly in the forums using an external tool (Google at the moment).

The following plugin is used to manage automatic translations: https://meta.discourse.org/c/plugin/translator/

  • interface translations (existing)
  • translation of the specific (webu)
  • the language of the user will be synchronized from the language of the portal (creation / change)
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5

Thank you Nicolas for the extended work and effort put into this release. We reviewed the specifications in detail with Richard during the International Circle meeting this evening (minutes here).

In short, we are convinced that with 5 starting languages and most translations planned to be done manually, considering the regular changes and improvements in content all over the platform, it will fast become unmanageable and we will have to live with fast diverging instances per language.

One thing we would request : is it possible to auto-translate both the portal contents and the wiki with the Google Translate module?

And second thing: we believe an extended pre-production testing phase will be needed to test the way this will work in real life. When is the pre-production go-live planned? :slight_smile:

6

Hello,

During the development phase, we tried to stay as close as we could to the original vision and intent, but taking into account the current « state of the art » on translation tools and technologies related to third-party applications already integrated within the platform.
We were aware that the management of 5 languages would quickly become quite complex to comprehend, more specifically regarding dynamic content and project management.
But this new version should be considered as a framework providing multilingual possibilities (it is up to us to use them immediately or not) more than something with a definitive state of development (as already discussed in another forum post).
And of course the integration and evolution of the content should be taken care of gradually.

Regarding pre-production phase, I will discuss it with WebU during our Weekly Meeting today, but it should be only a matter of weeks. The duration of the pre-production phase is to be adapted, and we are not in a rush (in my point of view), because on the other hand we will start working on the next iteration (v1.9) to upgrade the UX on the whole site.

On the Wiki side, I will check what can be done.

7

Hello again,

Regarding the Wiki, still not too late to change the way the translations will be handled.

What can be proposed :

  • Use of a reference language (most probably English) for the production of the content
  • The content is then translated into all other languages and the translation is based solely on the reference language content

Main advantage : more efficient way to manage the content in all languages because there is only one reference.
Translation automation is being studied but should be feasible.

Other point to be noted : comments on Wiki pages can be written in every language of the platform.

Question : will we all be able to provide the reference content in English ? Should we choose French as the reference ? (maybe more difficult to translate automatically into some other languages ?)

This change can be included into the next release which is due for pre-production mid-July at the latest, but we need a formal position by the end of the week to confirm this new path.

Thanks for feedback.

8

Will we all be able to provide the reference content in English?

Depends on people, here I believe its feasible, since most of us already speak english

Should we choose French as the reference?

Now this raises a second question, and I would reply by: it depends on the method/tool. If we loose content by translating couple of time to go by the language of reference then having a reference language is not helping.
However if it does not, we would gain to have an homogeneous content.

9

I’m launching a poll here, as there is a key decision to make: should we make English the reference (« pivot ») language on the wiki, and have automated translation from there to all other languages? Or should we let separate versions of the wiki evolve independently in each language?
The more I think about it, the more I am in favour of the second solution: it will clearly encourage more contributions (opening it to all those who are not proficient in English), and still anyone will be able to use the auto translate tools of a browser to read any version of the wiki.

  • English as « pivot » language
  • Separate versions per language

0 votant

10

I think that everybody knows that French, until 200 years ago, was the International reference language. Therefore it is still the language at the Olympic Games and one of the official languages of UN:
" Arabic, Chinese, English, French, Russian and Spanish - were established by a 1978 World Health Assembly resolution, turning multilingualism into a WHO policy. "
French is an international language even if it is only the 10th most speaken.
I, therefore, think we should adopt the same policy as WHO.

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11

Salut à tous,

Je remonte un peu ce sujet en haut de la pile, nous souhaitons prendre une décision avec WebU d’ici au 15 juillet. Au vu du sondage, on partirait donc sur la solution « Separate version per language ».

Hello,

I’m moving this topic upward, we would like to decide with WebU by July 15. In view of the survey, we would therefore start development with the « Separate version per language » solution.

Thanks.
Nicolas

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